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some requests
PopeJoDate: Sunday, 2010-01-24, 5:30 PM | Message # 1
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if it gets out of hands, we should split the topic, but for now I put it all in one thread:

/me opens the discussion : happy

@ all weapons challange: http://oa-cl.ucoz.org/forum/7-156-1

REPTCTF11 - is unbalanced. one side has a teleport, the other side has a jumppad. this map should be removed
OA_CTF2 - has horrible textures and his a second spacemap - one shold be enough in such a small mappool.
(where is my crosshair? sad )

@ matches rules http://oa-cl.ucoz.org/forum/7-160-1

this is very complicated.
1. I don't understand all the point system (028) - why is team (A) punished with only getting 16 points, when team (B) leaves the match? even worse: this encourages an enemy team to quit the game shortly, before they loose - because then the winning team gets only 16 instead of 20 points.
2. I don't understand why the rules are so "nice" to quitters and no-shows. (008, 009, 010, 011, 016) - if someone quits or does not show up - default win for the other team is easy and fair.
3. I don't like rule (013) - it would give the matches more variety and flavour if different mas have to be played.
4. I would like to have the organisation done by the teams. if they can't agree on a time for the match wihtin a given time (1 week), they get no points - end of the story.

in short, I find the bibs rules to be pretty perfect and short (and 100dres of participating clans went well with it): http://www.bibsql.com/?p=rules

I'll write more soon, gtg cooking for now biggrin


 
DarkalDate: Monday, 2010-01-25, 5:43 PM | Message # 2
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Ok thx for advises,

First, about maps, the list is relaly not completed, I made this thread only for "example", I wait Grism's advises about maps.
Anyway, the only one way is good to play REPTCTF11 is All Weapons... It could be unbalanced, but refereed to the rule 046, the opponent of chosen map choose the team color. And some people like REPTCTF11, I don't think it is a good idea to remove it from the list...

About OA_CTF2, this is one base map from OA, I don't think to remove it from All Weapons list is great, even if you don't like it... I wait other opinions about maps.

1- I thought about this point. BUT, I guess we can see when a team acts just to give less points to the opponent, and when they leaves, they get 0 points (if they finish the match, even if they loose, they get 3 points, it could be encouraging to continue the match). As you can see in 044, the teams can leave if they respect their opponent... We can may be change this rule and clarify if the team is suspected to leave ONLY to remove points, they could receive a penalty. (moreover, may be, we could give 4 instead of 3 points to the loosing team, it could be more encouraging to stay to the end of match).
But, we can't give more points to a team who win by abandoning than a team who win by a real victory..

2- explanations :
016 : the canceling of a match could be granted AFTER the match is played ONLY if League Staff see a rule was violated during the match.
the rule 011 explain the rules 008, 009 and 010 = if teams can't reschedule the match in 4 days (it's not so much), the team who is not responsible for the canceling win by abandoning. I think it is fair to let a delay for both teams to reschedule the match, and the motherfucker team who disturbs the organisation and doesn't show up to the match lose by abandonment.....

3- I agree with you...... But I think teams should be free to play on their favorite map...... May be we can ask teams to choose TWO favorite maps ?

4- We can't organize ALLLLL selection matches for 3 different challenges. We will organize the playoff matches, but for group selection matches I think it is perfect to let 2 months to the teams to organize themselves the matches. BTW we will can help them for organization, and try to push them to play their matches.


PS, I liked your link, but noticed the bad organization of previous league, I prefere to write REAL rules for any situations... wink

 
ToxicityDate: Monday, 2010-01-25, 9:13 PM | Message # 3
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I find maps should not chosen be favorite, maps should be chosen for fairnes. Much people have FPS or graphic problems. Well this map is not in the list, but I have for example much problems on pul1ctf with the brightskins ...

I thought the reason to start a new league is to bring back player to OA. But why should they come back with such crap old maps? wink It's really okay to chose some OA maps, but you should put in also some Quake3 maps. Because then see the players that OA has not alone weird maps and the people have a reason to start to training on such maps ... And I'm sure all agree me when I say that it makes fun to study a new map with the own clan wink

 
PopeJoDate: Tuesday, 2010-01-26, 9:59 AM | Message # 4
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@ maps - joki posted a longlist with comments on several maps here: http://oachallenge.webs.com/apps....ge=last

I quote only some here:

- oa_ctf4ish: this is just not fitting for competative matches. whoever camps the railgun more will be victorious. might be ok for instagib, but heresad remove this!
- reptctf11: this is the worst. it isnt even symetric. one team can use a teleporter that not only instantly teleports them into the base, it also saves them from being railed. not to mention that you can get a railgun at spawn, which rewards dying a lot. i dont see a sense in rewarding bad players to be honest.

+ ps9ctf: despite not many servers run this map, it seems pretty neat. also the item placements seems to be reasonable. smile
+ mkbase: another fine map, have a look. quake 1-style. very small and fast.
+ brickyard: pretty small, halfway famous map (runs for instance on nemesis-server), intense action.
+ q3wcp5: plays nicely 4v4 or 5v5
+ q3wcp9: maybe the most famous wcp-map.
+ q3wcp18: another very good map
+ q3w2: from aesthetic aspects might still be the best map out there

there are really a ton of awesome maps out there (for instance on http://www.lvlworld.com ). just click on CTF and browse them. fairness is fun. fame is not a sign of quality.

@ point system:

Quote (Darkal)
1- I thought about this point. BUT, I guess we can see when a team acts just to give less points to the opponent,...

sry, I don't think "we can see" and, you don't think so, too:
Quote (Darkal)
... I prefere to write REAL rules for any situations... wink

this link to bibs is from a professional leage, with hundreds of EU and hundreds of american players participating (in fact more then 1300 players ! http://www.bibsql.com/?p=players )
and it worked, you see? so I would really try to adapt their reglementations as close as possible.

@ camping: http://oa-cl.ucoz.org/forum/7-159-1

Quote (Darkal)
003 - The abusing of camping is prohibited from the league. The defense IS NOT camping and camping IS NOT defense. Player is camping when he stay at the same place (and not the same zone) during more than 12 seconds. The camper can take a penaly for this behavior by the referee.

ist this a "real rule"? how do we know when someone camps? 3 seconds on one place, or not leaving the railplatform on oasago?
ihmo, if the map is good, camping will make you loose.
most q3 maps have powerups in mid (regen, haste, ..) which can be used to storm a base, even if its full of campers.
so I would not forbid camping, but simply pick maps where camping can't get you an advantage (this would mean to remove OA_CTF2 from the map-pool)

all these points are really important, as we had problems in all OA leagues so far, due to bad rules. if a team think someone plays unfair, or even cheats, he can send a demo to the admins and they can decide to give a penalty for whatever reason they seem fit. I don't think we need an extra rule against camping.

and I want to add: besides all the details I criticise here, I do like the general outline of the rules and how you set up the forums. it looks professinonal and well thought. good job smile

I hope others do give their opinion, too, so its not just us 3 debating happy


 
DarkalDate: Tuesday, 2010-01-26, 10:59 AM | Message # 5
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About maps I absolutely agree with you both, as I told you, I wrote this map-pool very fast just to make an entry. I really wait for Grism and MIOW's opinions. But we probably remove totally OA_CTF2 and REPTCTF11. About OA_CTF4ISH, it will be great on Rockets Challenge.

And, it is sure, we will add a lot of Q3 maps, I will take time to see your url links, PopeJo.

About camping, I wrote this rule just to show that the camping will be frowned upon in the OpenArena League. If you don't set this rule as precisely as I done, players will feel free to hide during 5min with flag, for example... But I totally agree with you, the camping will not give victory, but I think it can be anti-game and remove the fun of OA.

Quote (PopeJo)
and I want to add: besides all the details I criticise here, I do like the general outline of the rules and how you set up the forums. it looks professinonal and well thought. good job smile
Thank you happy but I invited you to criticize, so don't worry about that biggrin
 
a_clownDate: Wednesday, 2010-01-27, 5:12 PM | Message # 6
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Hello hello :),

Quote
005a - The /capturelimit of official matches is set to 5.

Why? I think a limit of 8 is great :).

Quote
006 - The FPS will be limited to 125 on official league servers.

How do you want to do that? Config control? Own mod? Better use pmove and everything is fine, because players with <125fps can play too :).

Quote
037 - The spectators allowed to watch the match should not disturb the players, they are encouraged to use /sayteam instead of /say.

That means SPECS are allowed? Thats not really cool, teammates can spy per spec the other team (and yeah, this works very well...took RA at 5:02, has 20 health, flag is at XYZ).

Quote
038 - If, during a match, a player is suddenly disconnected, every players must to stop moving ingame.

Thats REALLY bad. First how to control it? AND you can use this to break mapcontrol!!! Oh damn, our enemy has our RA controlled, player XYZ disconnect please and wait a few seconds so we can bring this armor back.
We need a 1min timeout feature.

Ok, all these nice features come with CPMA! The netcode is just great and it will be much better to play on american servers. It brings this nice ready feature, a timeout, EVERYTHING you want. It has brightskins, better sounds, icons and comes with superhud.

If you dont know CPMA and think: "uh, this is only fucking cpm movement" NO, you can play vq3 too smile

Quote
Challenge ProMode Arena has become the standard competitive mod for Q3A since the Cyberathlete Professional League announced CPMA as its competition mod of choice.

ALL vq3 -> give it a go

Think about it, i dont think this league will work without something like this! With cpma i will play with you \o/

a_clown


 
DarkalDate: Wednesday, 2010-01-27, 5:51 PM | Message # 7
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Hi ! And thanks for advises. BTW you are RN|clown ??

Quote (a_clown)
Why? I think a limit of 8 is great :)

Because it is unbalanced to let teams to win 8 - 0 in 5min (each capture gives league point) vs some teams, and to lose a looong match 2 - 3 vs a team who is better. I think to limit the captures to 5 will give another point of view of scores. Moreover, we will play 3 different challenges, so there will be too much matches to play, to limit the capturelimit to 5 will give more time and motivation to teams to play next matches. IMHO... If someone thinks it's really questionable, we can open a poll.

Quote (a_clown)
How do you want to do that? Config control? Own mod? Better use pmove and everything is fine, because players with <125fps can play too :)

Yes, Clan-League servers will run with a ''mod'', about servers it is a good part of organization not done at all... I am a big shit in configs, so I let Grism and heap to answer to you about pmove, I don't know what is that... :*) BUT, I really don't want to let 333 fps players to play with this config, because it is totally unfair, 92% of players' computers can't support 333 fps...

Quote (a_clown)
That means SPECS are allowed? Thats not really cool, teammates can spy per spec the other team (and yeah, this works very well...took RA at 5:02, has 20 health, flag is at XYZ).

As I said upper, the servers' configs and rules isn't yet done. Finaly we will probably NOT allow any spectator during official matches wink But we need to set up a system to let remplacing player to enter...

Quote (a_clown)
Thats REALLY bad. First how to control it? AND you can use this to break mapcontrol!!!

I agree with you, we think about it, it is also about server config. PopeJo suggested to use a freeze command from a mod. But, we totally can't blame a clan and let they play 3vs4 during more few seconds just because a player had a computer surprise...

The league will be played on VQ3, I forget to precise. OpenArena is not ready yet to totally play CPMA... BTW CPMA..... SUX tongue <joke />... But the league will be played on VQ3 anyway.

 
a_clownDate: Thursday, 2010-01-28, 12:24 PM | Message # 8
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Hey,

Quote
OpenArena is not ready yet to totally play CPMA... BTW CPMA..... SUX tongue <joke />... But the league will be played on VQ3 anyway.

Well you can play VQ3 with cpma (better CQ3). It brings competetive features...and thats what we need! Do you think you can code a better mod?
CPMA will make this game fair(brightskins, prosound, crappy shadow-wallhack removed, netcode(autosnaps and and AND), SUPERHUD, MVD demos hell yeah...you can spec who/whatever you want! ), and maybe some gone oa-players will join this league too.
CPMA can make this event bigger and MAYBE let the oa community grow. Without cpma and maybe free flight demos( \o/ thank you last league :D) you are able to shrink the community.

think about it smile

a_clown

Edit1: sorry, im RN|clown smile :o)
Edit2: isnt it beautiful? cpma-skins <3




Message edited by a_clown - Thursday, 2010-01-28, 7:14 PM
 
StrikerFredDate: Thursday, 2010-01-28, 4:51 PM | Message # 9
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Hello,

I agree that we should not make the same failure like in the last league.. And it should help already a lot with a good mappool. Well, others have already said much about maps, and I agree. Quake3 maps would be really cool to play ! happy

I also agree with cpma.. You can play it in vq3, and it has some nice features, which would be very usefull for this league! You want to do your own mod, but maybe it would be easier to take cpma tongue

See you later,
Fred

EDIT : oh and plz.. No specs !

Message edited by StrikerFred - Thursday, 2010-01-28, 4:52 PM
 
ToxicityDate: Thursday, 2010-01-28, 6:57 PM | Message # 10
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I agree too! CPMA with VQ3 movement is really nice n_n In the end it's still the same what you play in the moment in OA, but you have better brightskins, nice hitsounds, etc ... I'm sure this would bring also much player back to OA ...
 
MIOWDate: Thursday, 2010-01-28, 8:01 PM | Message # 11
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You can also use x-battle mod so people don't need to adjust to different netcode.

My opinion about mappool (for all weapons):
- 13VAST (BUBCTF1) - too much rail action and too simple layout. I think there shouldn't be space maps at all.
- BRICKYARD - too small (sorry Pope)
- OA_BASES3 - 24h MG camping
- OASAGO2 - FPS problems
- PS37CTF - outdated

+ PS37CTF3
+ OASAGO2J
+ MLCTF1BETA
+ X3MAP05
+ Q3WCP1
+ Q3WCP15
+ Q3WCP22
(these threewave maps will be barely played, although they're excellent)


:: nyen :: IRC channel #nyen @ QuakeNet ::
 
DarkalDate: Friday, 2010-01-29, 10:51 AM | Message # 12
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(in following your advises, I added some maps to the mappool).

Ok Ok I am convinced about ProMod. I think we will finaly use that mod. For sure we will play with Vanilla Quake III Motor.

Quote (StrikerFred)
oh and plz.. No specs !

Yes I really needed your advises about it. I even opened a thread about it.. I really didn't know what to think about spectators.
Now I think I will add a rule about it, the match can start when all players are ready AND when all spectators left.
To make a great match preparing between both teams players, we can, for example, let 16 players to join before the match, and the referee will change sv_maxplayers to 9 when the match should be started, and when all players are ready.
What do you think about it ?
 
a_clownDate: Friday, 2010-01-29, 6:13 PM | Message # 13
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Quote (Darkal)
Ok Ok I am convinced about ProMod. I think we will finaly use that mod. For sure we will play with Vanilla Quake III Motor.

OMG!!! This is amazing :o)


 
MIOWDate: Friday, 2010-01-29, 7:30 PM | Message # 14
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Quote (Darkal)
(in following your advises, I added some maps to the mappool).

How about PS37CTF3? http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2731.0 (download http://q3a.ath.cx/?mapdetails=ps37ctf3 )
I think OASAGO2 is needless if there's OASAGO2J already.

X-Battle is OSP+Unlagged, so players don't need to adjust and find new optimal settings for delag.
It has two downsides though:
- no MVD (multiview demos); there's a chance it can be solved by Q3SDC http://skuller-vidnoe.narod.ru/
- OA 0.8.5 will feature nerfed LG according to sago http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3095.msg25636#msg25636 X-Battle will remove this.


:: nyen :: IRC channel #nyen @ QuakeNet ::
 
StrzelbaDate: Friday, 2010-01-29, 9:43 PM | Message # 15
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Don't u think that too many maps allowed is bad idea? I think we should pick idk 6 maps only. There will be not enough time to learn 10 new maps(i'm talking about some clans who don't play non-oa maps at all).

Ah and about mod xbattle or cpma would be great:D

Message edited by Strzelba - Friday, 2010-01-29, 9:46 PM
 
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